Register
Welcome to the Stormspire.net WoW Gold Forums!

Greetings, guest! Welcome to Stormspire.net, your #1 resource for WoW and Diablo 3 Gold, Professions, and everything in between!


Enjoy what the site offers? Consider Premium Membership if you wish to get the most out of the site. Premium Membership benefits include the acclaimed Goblineer's World of Warcraft Gold Guide, private forum access, a complimentary high-quality avatar, and much more!


If this is your first visit, make sure to check out the Stormspire.net Survival Guide for a quick site orientation. You may also register to unlock all standard forum features, and to get rid of these lovely ads!


We proudly host the Official forums for TradeSkillMaster, The Undermine Journal, and WoWuction.

Page 2 of 8 First 1234 ... Last
Results 11 to 20 of 74

Thread: TUJ to close

  1. #11
    US-Malfurion(H)
    Entrepreneur
    Aliok's Avatar
    Posts
    10
    Reputation
    0
    Tagged in
    3 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    Whatever happens in the future, thank you @Erorus for all the time and effort you've sunk into TUJ. It continues to amaze me that a person would create and maintain such a large project for the benefit of a community.

  2. #12
    Entrepreneur
    Exile's Avatar
    Posts
    110
    Reputation
    1
    Tagged in
    42 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    I will miss TUJ greatly, been a paying sub for quite a while now. Are their any other apps or websites that do anything similar to TUJ out there?

  3. #13
    EU-Argent Dawn (A)
    Ethereal Contributor
    Auramin's Avatar
    Posts
    8
    Reputation
    0
    Tagged in
    2 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    Nooo! This is indeed sad news. I've been scanning TUJ daily, and I very much favor its layout and design over WoWuction. Been using those two together with a steady, good outcome and I really hate to see it go offline. I'm crossing my fingers for a return in a not-too-distant future and thank its creator for all the time and effort he must've put into this fantastic goblin tool!

  4. #14
    US-Magtheridon(H)
    Apprentice
    tiny's Avatar
    Posts
    1
    Reputation
    0
    Tagged in
    1 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    Quote Originally Posted by Erorus View Post
    Hey folks, thanks for the comments, sorry about the closing.

    We've been hosted at Linode since 2010, and things were great. 3 months ago I finally moved our main auction database out of my apartment to their servers since Linode claimed to have "high performance SSDs". However, while everything looked good on my end, yesterday Linode said the amount of resources I was using was way beyond their intentions. There was never a cap listed on any page of theirs, and it didn't look like I was negatively impacting anyone, but they say I am, and things have to stop. Either I reduce disk usage by like 90% or the server gets shut down. Obviously I can't maintain auction history under those restrictions, after all the optimization I've done over the years. I'm trying to keep what I can online so people who recently bought subscriptions get some of their money's worth out of it.

    There's hope that maybe by the fall I'll have the urge to build a dedicated server in my apartment again, on a business-class Internet connection, and just host everything myself. But that's a lot of work to set up, as well as finally tuning the database to handle connected realms (and soon auction-connected factions) properly. And my day job keeps me quite busy anymore. So I don't know. I know if it's not back up by WoD release then it's not going up at all.

    We had to close before, at the end of 2010, and we came back. I don't want to raise false hope because the future is really uncertain, but it's not like I 100% have to give up TUJ. It can come back, it'll just take a lot of work on my part. And I have to decide if I have the time and energy to do it.
    Hi Erorus,

    How much space are you using for the system? If it's within reason, i'm pretty sure we can find a workable solution.

    drop me a note on solidice or give me a call to discuss (the number is on the site)

    Talk to you soon,

    tiny

  5. #15
    Apprentice
    Ironaya's Avatar
    Posts
    2
    Reputation
    0
    Tagged in
    1 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    Hey man. This is my first ever post on the forums and its just to say thanks for all the work I really appreciate it and want to encourage you to keep up the work or maybe take some of your spare time to evolve the system Thanks again

  6. #16
    Entrepreneur
    Sneaky's Avatar
    Posts
    8
    Reputation
    0
    Tagged in
    0 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    This is a very sad day in history indeed =(
    Can't even count how many times a day i use this site.

  7. #17
    Entrepreneur
    cracklingice's Avatar
    Posts
    812
    Reputation
    18
    Tagged in
    170 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    Hi Erorus,

    How much space are you using for the system? If it's within reason, i'm pretty sure we can find a workable solution.

    drop me a note on solidice or give me a call to discuss (the number is on the site)

    Talk to you soon,

    tiny
    The problem sounds to have nothing to do with file sizes or required volume of space, but with how many writes are being made to those files. Using a drive puts wear on it. This problem is pronounced when using SSD drives as there is a limit to the number of times a storage location can be written to.
    Also, reads and writes take CPU time. Writes likely more than reads because some reads are likely pulled from a ram cache if there hasn't been a change since a recent access.
    @Erorus They didn't have some sort of alternate option they would explore, such as supplying your own (likely they would request new in sealed box) physical drive to store the database?


    On a side note, is it possible that there's traffic from undesirable sources? Crawlers, 'hackers', ect that is causing the usage to skyrocket?
    Last edited by cracklingice; July 9th, 2014 at 03:42 AM.

  8. #18
    Ethereal Contributor
    Parmy's Avatar
    Posts
    4
    Reputation
    0
    Tagged in
    2 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    This is very sad news indeed; however, I'm confused as to why this means the end.. There are plenty of other options for hosting which I'm sure are better anyway (2 x examples below), though based on your obvious knowledge I'm sure you've considered alternatives already, so the question I have is, why are they not viable? How resource heavy is TUJ to run?

    I'm more than willing to contribute(financially and/or time wise) to keep this great service operating.

    http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/
    http://www.leaseweb.com/en/cloud/virtual-server
    Last edited by Parmy; July 9th, 2014 at 04:14 AM.

  9. #19
    US-Proudmoore(A)
    Entrepreneur
    Theronie's Avatar
    Posts
    17
    Reputation
    2
    Tagged in
    2 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    Quote Originally Posted by Erorus View Post
    Hey folks, thanks for the comments, sorry about the closing.

    We've been hosted at Linode since 2010, and things were great. 3 months ago I finally moved our main auction database out of my apartment to their servers since Linode claimed to have "high performance SSDs". However, while everything looked good on my end, yesterday Linode said the amount of resources I was using was way beyond their intentions. There was never a cap listed on any page of theirs, and it didn't look like I was negatively impacting anyone, but they say I am, and things have to stop. Either I reduce disk usage by like 90% or the server gets shut down. Obviously I can't maintain auction history under those restrictions, after all the optimization I've done over the years. I'm trying to keep what I can online so people who recently bought subscriptions get some of their money's worth out of it.

    There's hope that maybe by the fall I'll have the urge to build a dedicated server in my apartment again, on a business-class Internet connection, and just host everything myself. But that's a lot of work to set up, as well as finally tuning the database to handle connected realms (and soon auction-connected factions) properly. And my day job keeps me quite busy anymore. So I don't know. I know if it's not back up by WoD release then it's not going up at all.

    We had to close before, at the end of 2010, and we came back. I don't want to raise false hope because the future is really uncertain, but it's not like I 100% have to give up TUJ. It can come back, it'll just take a lot of work on my part. And I have to decide if I have the time and energy to do it.
    The is really sad news! TUJ is the number one site I open when my PC boots.

    @Erorus a few thoughts... (Excuse my ignorance if these have all been explored) Most of us (I assume) would gladly poor more for subscriptions to keep you up and running, if $'s are the issue to get a hosting provider maybe additional funds would help, are we talk, $100s, $1000s, or $10,000s per month? Another thought, has the app every been reviewed from a software architecture perspective to see how it could be optimised (I can only imagine the workloads given the data volumes you are having to dela with)? W/R's on SSD were an issue in the early days but many of these issues have been resolved. If you do have to close any thoughts on open sourcing the code maybe someone in the community might want to pick up the project. Another thought maybe reach out to Curse, while many may not like the idea but they might be interested in purchasing the site, then while commercial in nature it would still live on.

  10. #20
    Developer - The Undermine Journal
    Erorus's Avatar
    Posts
    1,054
    Reputation
    85
    Tagged in
    560 Posts
    Add to this user's reputation
    Hey folks, I'll try to sum up instead of replying point-by-point.

    The issue at Linode is indeed the high number of disk operations required on a speedy SSD. Let me repeat that: it's not disk *space*, anyone can get disk space for cheap, it's high-speed constant disk *activity*. A traditional spinning HDD is not feasible, hasn't been since we started. The majority of our disk activity is maintaining and updating the database, reads are well-cached and aren't as constant or as costly as writes, so it's not "bad traffic" causing problems or anything. TBH our best traffic days were at the beginning of this year; traffic has diminished since then (to be expected at the end of an expansion). The reason it got on Linode's radar now might be because Blizzard is pushing out frequent EU updates (most under 40 minutes apart), tho I can't say for certain since we've been well over their threshold for months.

    So requiring SSDs cuts out most VPS providers right there. And any remaining VPS servers won't want to share their SSD between myself and other customers, because while Linode was kind-of a dick with the short notice on this, their infrastructure has always been pretty well set up and if they can't handle it (at a reasonable price), nobody can. Note I said "reasonable price": Amazon could probably do it, but their pricing model scares the crap out of me. So that takes us to dedicated hosting.

    I briefly looked at some dedicated host pricing with SSDs, and it's around $200/mo (almost double what I'm paying Linode now). Plus I have no guarantee their hardware would be sufficient for what I need to do, or that the host won't jack up prices or go out of business or whatever. Between subscriptions and ad revenue, I could cover a $200/mo cost usually without a problem, but I'm just not comfortable with that cost for what you get. I don't think it's worth $2400/yr, you know?

    If TUJ comes back, it'll be on dedicated server(s) I host at my house. Yeah, it sounds a bit sketchy but it can be reliable and cheap. TUJ's database was hosted at home until 3 months ago anyway. I sold the parts on eBay once Linode was stable for 6 weeks or so.. wish they told me it'd cause a problem sooner otherwise I could've just moved things back here. Anyway, I can build another heavy-duty database for about $1000, and with some parts I already have around I can have a dedicated web server for probably under $200. I'm not concerned about that one-time cost, I'd make it back in subs and ads after a short while. I'd upgrade my home cable service to business-class so it gets a static IP, unblocked ports, and quicker response to any problems that come up. That'd cost me about $60-$80/mo more than my cable bill now, but it'd end up about the same or less than what I'm already paying Linode, so it's basically the same recurring cost as before.

    So, problem 1, which is moving off of Linode, isn't really a huge deal. Yes it'd take me time and money to build the system, and yes it's a pain to have to deal with Comcast to upgrade my Internet service, but it's doable. I don't need anyone's money for this, I don't need donations or a kickstarter or a friendly new hosting service, I'd just need to buy the parts, set it up, and make the money back over time. Money is not the problem here.

    But there's problem 2: Undermine's code is creaky. It's been on Linode since 2010, and been modified a dozen times to work around limitations in where servers were and what operations were speedy and connected realms and.. it's a mess. The site had to be live all the time so the fixes weren't ever rebuilds, they were just patches. I don't want to try to get that entire tangle out of Linode and onto another box because it's already a mess, and hooking all that up again would be a nightmare.

    So, I'd pretty much rebuild Undermine. Yes, I'd probably reuse a lot of functions and routines I have now, but really it'd be a whole new database schema and mostly new code. New site layout, too. I've learned a lot in the past 4 years and the codebase could use a cleanup. But this is the real problem. It'd take lots of time to write all that, and I'm not sure I have the energy to do it. And no, I don't trust others to help out nor do I want to open-source it or any of that. I want lots of control over stuff like this, so people don't get upset looking for a cut of subscription money or arguing about details. I rule TUJ with an iron fist.

    So what I need to figure out is, do I have the time and energy to do this? Can it be done in a reasonable amount of time? I need to think it over. Then, if I do it, that'll take a while.

    And I won't sell the site to Curse. Or anyone, but especially not Curse. I work for ZAM, why would I want anything to do with Curse? It won't end up on ZAM, either. Like I said, I want to rule TUJ, and I don't want to answer to anyone with my pet project.

    edit Damn, that got long. Hope that answers your questions.

 

 
Page 2 of 8 First 1234 ... Last

Similar Threads

  1. "x" close button on auction UI
    By Dave**** in forum General TradeSkillMaster Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: August 11th, 2013, 01:23 PM
  2. Season 9 drawing to a close
    By Xsinthis in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: June 7th, 2011, 07:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •