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  1. #1
    Sinshroud's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Wall of Shame for Ninja Looters

    Ninja looting is something that has gone on far too long. It's been around since pre-bc, and it took Blizzard 5 years to make any form of amendments to it with the introduction of the "scamming" rule including Master Looters and going back on their word in raids.

    However Blizzard have not extended this rule to the normal LFG system. I have opened many a ticket and they simply say there are no rules against ninja-ing items in random dungeon/heroic groups.

    So I've decided to create a Wall of Shame here. If someone ninjas from you or does something completely unacceptable in a random just because they can, please post a screenshot here.
    This will hopefully help players avoid certain unfavorable people in their future dungeon groups. Perhaps one of these people are on your realm - heck maybe even in your guild.

    Please keep in mind:
    • Let's keep it civil. What these people have done is wrong, but I don't want it to actually get ugly and be a way to harass them.
    • Its purely a way to help protect others from them.
    • If things get out of hand I will need to remove the thread.
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  2. #2
    Sinshroud's Avatar
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    Character: Neijekreborn
    Server: Nordrassil EU
    Offense: Ninja-ing my dps ring, after I kindly passed on a tanking helm for him. Then subsequently kicking me after I brought the issue up.

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  3. #3
    Sinshroud's Avatar
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    I don't know if it's just me and I'm unlucky, but almost every run I join on my leveling chars, someone ninjas and item they weren't supposed to have priority on.

    Happened to me again this morning so I thought I would post another screenshot for the hell of it.

    Character: Strikken
    Server: Terenas EU
    Offense: Ninja-ing my tanking shoulders as a ret paladin, he even asked if he could need them and I said no because I needed. He needed and won anyways then left group.

    Last edited by Sinshroud; May 23rd, 2011 at 12:13 PM.
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  4. #4
    There's zero accountability for these things in the new LFD age, but at least he asked before just rolling need? That's a slight improvement, but still pretty poop.

    I'm hesitant to even grab one pug in an otherwise full guild group, I loathe most of them that much. /insert smiley face

  5. #5
    Drrwho's Avatar
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    I don't have any screenshots for recent ninja actions, but I've seen my fair share of them. What makes me laugh (in a pissed off manner usually) is how the ninjas try to justify their actions. Their logic is SOOOO screwed up, I don't know how they make it through life. And I've heard it said many times (and believe it myself) that how people act in WoW are typically how they act in real life. Chances are the ninja looters are those people that don't care about anything but themselves and have stolen something in real life as well.

    And the bigger problem is that there is no real punishment for doing so in the game. Blizzard rarely does much about it, despite saying they will "take care of it" when it happens in a raid setting. More times than not, they don't do anything or they say there "wasn't enough evidence to do something about it". That last part is what makes me mad because there clearly is PLENTY of evidence, but it boils down to Blizzard not wanting to waste time to fix it. They ultimately don't really care what happens... they are getting their $15/month, so why should they care what happens in the game with some virtual loot item. Customer Service is not a high priority for them and it shows.


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  6. #6
    Kathroman's Avatar
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    What if they were to implement some sort of "objections" vote following any need roll. That way, anyone bitter wouldn't be able to abuse the system, but people wouldn't be able to "ninja" things either. I know that Blizzard will argue that the current system is "fair", but the fact of the matter remains - people find ways of getting away with stuff when there is little to no accountability.

    Another option would be to limit the number of "need" rolls per instance, or per time period, etc.
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  7. #7
    Sinshroud's Avatar
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    @Drrwho: Blizzard do have an anti-ninjalooting policy (classified as scamming) which you can find here: http://us.blizzard.com/support/artic...rticleId=17761

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard's Article
    What if I disagree with the way loot is distributed? Isn't that ninja looting?
    No. Such disagreements are considered looting disputes, not ninja looting. A looting dispute occurs when a player loots an item for which he or she is eligible, but in doing so, goes against social looting practices (Main Spec > Off Spec, upgrades only, etc).
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard's Article
    Okay, so scamming is against the rules…what exactly is a scam?
    In terms of loot, making and then breaking a clear in-game agreement on the way loot will be distributed by a Master Looter can be considered a scam. Unfortunately, some players will make loot agreements they have no intention of keeping to get players to join a dungeon or raid group. In these situations, players who disregard the original agreement and then take (or give away) loot in a different way are potentially violating our Scam Policy.
    I have recently opened a ticket with Blizzard to try get more clarification and the conversation/their answers went something like this:
    Blizzard: "It is impossible to ninja loot within a Random Looking for Dungeon Group. The loot system is automatically set to the most appropriate loot system; Need Before Greed, and cannot be changed. If your character is able to click the need button on which ever piece of loot, then he is allowed to."

    In otherwords it's actually Greed along side Need system, since the greedy are able to need if possible, regardless of their role.

    I then took a next step to ask the GM:
    What if we created some sort of agreement at the start of the run? Something like:

    *Group is formed and players are now buffing and getting ready to start the run*
    Player 1: "In order to combat the ninja-looting epidemic that is taking over Wold of Warcraft lately, I would like you all to agree that you will NOT roll on a piece of loot (regardless of if the system allows you to or not) unless A) it is for your CURRENT spec that you are queued for the dungeon as, or B) it is for offspec and EVERYONE else in the group agrees that you may roll need on it."
    Player 2: "Yes I agree to that."
    Player 3: "Yes I agree to that."
    Player 4: "Yes I agree to that."
    Player 5: "Yes I agree to that."


    Blizzard: "Regardless of any agreement made, we cannot take any actions or classify it as scamming if a dps rolls need on a tanking item, over and above a tank needing the same item".


    It's pretty sad really.
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  8. #8
    Drrwho's Avatar
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    Limiting the needs rolls probably wouldnt work... that would likely invite even more QQing. What happens if all mail agi gear dropped for instance, and there was a hunter in the group. If he could only roll Need once, he'd get screwed out of all the rest that dropped. I understand where you are coming from on that thought... I just bet it would cause more drama.

    Your first idea could work, if implemented correctly. The one "issue" I could see is if the group is made of 3 or 4 guild members and 1-2 pugs. The guild members could potentially screw over the pug by "objecting" to them rolling need, because they want their guild member to get the item instead. It could get abused. How to combat that? I don't have a good answer, but the general idea of an objection system could be tweaked to possibly work.

    Getting Blizzard to implement something like this though... that's a whole other issue. They already don't seem to care that much... and it requires work on their part to implement something they don't care about. They SHOULD care though!


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  9. #9
    Drrwho's Avatar
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    Sinshroud... to me, what that says is that Blizzard is doing a CYA act, but ultimately they don't really give a crap about people ninja looting. Their explanation about it being "impossible" to ninja loot in a LFG group is complete BS. It's happening, they just won't acknowledge it because it means they have to put forth extra effort to stop it.


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  10. #10
    Or they don't care that you have to do the run another 1, 2, or 15 times to actually get the loot you want. If people aren't cancelling accounts over the problem, why would they care?

    I'll typically wait until last to roll. If someone rolls need on a BoP and I feel they shouldn't have, I'll roll need if I can. If I win it, I'll give the item to the player whose role is consistent with the specs of the item. This is pretty rare though since I'm a clothie.

    Blizzard really should put better logic into their roll system. On top of the checks they have now that determine whether or not you can roll Need, each piece of gear should be given a role priority: Tank, Healer, DPS. When more than one person rolls Need on an item, their role in the current instance is compared with the role priorities on the item. Only people who match the top role priority for the item should get the Need roll. If the top role priority isn't matched, then it moves to the second and whoever matches that role gets to roll need. If nobody matches the second priority role, Need rolls get switched to Greed rolls.

 

 

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