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  1. #1
    Sapu94's Avatar
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    Feedback / Thoughts / Ideas: Adding additional crafts to the Crafting module

    So one of the things I am working on improving with the Crafting module is supporting more crafts. Right now, transmutes with cds and inks are the big ones that aren't included in the Crafting module.

    The reason for not including transmutes with cds is that it doesn't make sense for 3 truegold transmutes to be queued up. However, I realize that it would still be nice to see a profit estimate for transmutes with cds in order to determine what you should use your cd on.

    As for inks, without going into too much detail and creating a wall of text, they are treated specially by the addon. Crafting takes into account prices of herbs / pigments / the inks themselves to determine what they are worth. If they were just added as normal crafts, this would mess all that up as well as cause a ton of other issues (trust me on this one).

    Not to mention, I've never heard of anybody creating inks and selling them for profit (if there exist such people they are in the minority) so it wouldn't make much sense for the restock queue to queue up a bunch of inks because they are profitable. But, it could be nice to be able to queue up inks inside of the TSM instead of having to go into the tradeskill window to do it (I personally wouldn't do this but it is still a valid request).


    So, here is my idea:
    Be able to add more crafts into the Crafting module than you currently are able to (potentially be able to add every possible craft although this is another issue entirely) but have some that are permanently set as "Don't Queue" so won't be added to the restock queue and also Crafting would know not to add them as intermediate crafts (one of the reasons transmutes with cds aren't currently implemented...and adding inks as intermediate crafts would cause a ton of issues as mentioned above).

    I'm curious what people think about this issue / potential solution and if anybody has any better ideas or comments about how to best improve this area of the Crafting module.

    Sorry for the wall of text (didn't originally plan on making such a long post ) and thanks for reading!

    PS/EDIT: There are probably perfectly valid crafts that I just plain missed. If so, please create a ticket to request them being added here.


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  2. #2
    Well one of my main issues currently is the fact many 'regular' crafts are missing never mind odd, rarely used or niche crafts.e.g. i recently purchased the mystic amberjewel pattern and found it isn't included in the craft list so i have to keep an eye on it and craft it manually.

    What i find odd is this is based on APM/ZA but doesn't have the basic feature of being able to update crafts as they are added/it sees them and instead is tied to a specific set of programmed crafts which i see as a major step backwards.e.g. previously when new patterns were added such as new gem crafts APM/ZA would automatically add those crafts to it's database as it saw them but TSM crafting doesn't do that so all the new meta and enchanting crafts aren't including and again have to be tracked and crafted manually.
    This is only going to get worse as more crafts are added and will pretty much cripple it's usefulness if/when epic gems are introduced for example and it isn't updated immediately with all those patterns.
    As it is TSM is great but i am still using a lot of my old crafting addons as a fallback due to many missing features like common and obvious crafts.

    Isn't it possible to make it scan your crafting window for the crafts you have and simply let it add them to it's own database instead of having to add everything manually and update it every time new patterns are released?

    As for adding things like ink crafting or transmutes should be a low priority to getting the basics sorted. Things like that can easily be sorted in other ways and don't really benefit greatly from having them added to a module like this, although yes it would be nice, but having basic crafts missing is very annoying and fiddly and is putting major minus points for the utility of the addon.
    Last edited by Thefluffyrocker; March 1st, 2011 at 03:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Sapu94's Avatar
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    @Thefluffyrocker:

    In fact almost all the "regular" crafts are already added including Mystic Amberjewel which I just double checked. You may simply have them disabled. To fix this, open up the main TSM window (/tsm) and click on the Jewelcrafting (or any other profession) icon. Then go to the group that the craft is in (Yellow gems) and hit "Enable All")


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  4. #4
    I have just installed the latest version and mystic amberjewel is now included although it wasn't in the last build i had, along with a few other recipes that were previously missing. I will have to do a more thorough search to see if all the patterns i was missing have been added.

    Even though crafts are being progressively added this still poses the question of improving the addition of new patterns to it's database which is in reality the main issue, as i pointed out above the main concern in that regard i see is when/if epic gems arrive as there will be a huge number of new patterns and in smaller steps as new tiers of gear are added to be crafted, if they aren't added quickly it's going to be a severe case of falling back on more traditional addons.
    Last edited by Thefluffyrocker; March 1st, 2011 at 06:11 PM.

  5. #5
    Sapu94's Avatar
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    Yes and that issue needs to be addressed as well...but is sort of off topic for this thread. The issue this thread addresses does need to be taken care of before the solution for the problem you brought up can be implemented (which is to allow all crafts to be added among other things).
    Last edited by Sapu94; March 1st, 2011 at 10:02 PM.


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  6. #6
    Well from what information you give it seems like the main argument against the addition of these is "they don't make sense"? .i.e. it doesn't make sense to queue multiple transmutes and it doesn't make sense to restock inks?

    On the transmuting. It does make sense if you have multiple alchemists, which many people do, so if there's no technical issues then i don't see the issue at hand.

    On inks, it seems like your saying the problems [may] arise through the way it uses multiple sources to calculate the ink prices? If that is so couldn't you just add an option to choose the pricing source much like you can choose between manual pricing, auction scan data or minimal buyout data to determine prices for crafting. So you would have a sub menu to determine the source as herbs/pigments/inks/manual?

    On the point of restocking not making much sense for inks, many people keep stocks of inks.e.g. they do a huge crafting session at certain times of the week to have supplies for the rest of the week rather than crafting 'hand to mouth' although this usually then includes actually crafting said items as well. As there is also the option to turn on or what is queued when you restock then "it doesn't make sense" again isn't really an argument against adding it.

    Overall i would say if their easy to add then why not, if it's going to be a ball ache to implement then i doubt people are really going to notice one way or another.

  7. #7
    Kathroman's Avatar
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    As a scribe - I would definitely appreciate an easy way to keep my ink stock up. If they were in my queue, then I would remember to grab them when they are cheap as opposed to paying for whatever is below market value on my restocking day.

    I'm sure there might be other barriers in place, but wouldn't it make the most sense to have everything possible and let people use/not use as they wish instead of trying to guess what people will or will not want? Some of us are fickle . That fits with the overall addon concept of having standalone modules, doesn't it?

    Thanks for an excellent addon, thus far. I'm at least twice as efficient as I was without it.
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  8. #8
    Sapu94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathroman View Post
    As a scribe - I would definitely appreciate an easy way to keep my ink stock up. If they were in my queue, then I would remember to grab them when they are cheap as opposed to paying for whatever is below market value on my restocking day.
    I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this...at least on my server what inks are selling for on the AH (at least lower level inks) is sort of random compared to what the herbs used to make that ink are selling for so I'm not sure the profit for inks would really tell you anything useful (but please correct me / clarify if I'm wrong).

    Wouldn't what you are trying to do be accomplished better if you could add inks to Shopping - Dealfinding and it would do something similar to what the Shopping - Milling / Disenchanting / Prospecting page currently does (which isn't yet possible)? Or if you added all the herbs / inks to your dealfinding list and just remembered to do a dealfinding scan every day or so?

    I'm not trying to say "you're doing it wrong" or anything like that. I'll be the first to admit that dealfinding isn't one of TSM's strongest features by a long shot. But, I'm observing how people are using the addon and trying to improve different areas in ways that will most effectively benefit the user. If making Dealfinding more versatile / configurable would solve the "i want to get inks for cheap" issue you mentioned better than having them as crafts in the Crafting addon than that would be good information for me to know so I can make sure to address it when dealfinding gets revamped. If not, then I'll make sure to address it in Crafting. Hope that makes sense.


    @Thefluffyrocker
    So yes my whole question here is if people would care one way or the other (which in your opinion is no).


    So perhaps I'll give it a shot in an alpha version and see how it turns out cause as far as I can tell it should be relatively easy to do...


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  9. #9
    As you mentioned dealfinder, on a very slightly related note i would like to suggest being able to import material prices from the crafting module to the deal finder. I would find this extremely useful as it would save a lot of time setting up dealfinder (i have quite a big list) and also keeping it updated with changing prices, if it was possible. Could maybe have a tick box option in the material costs section to say "add to dealfinder".

  10. #10
    Sapu94's Avatar
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    There is an obvious (at least for me) gap in "quality" (for lack of a better word...) from Dealfinding to Crafting / Auctioning (the two big / main modules). It was sort of thrown together at the last minute. I haven't had much time to work on TSM lately and won't for another week or two...but there are grand plans in place for major additions / changes to dealfinding.

    On that note, yes we are looking for other devs to help out with TSM in order to get stuff like this going faster ...I've done 90% of the code so far and I started back in mid-october. Imagine how awesome the addon would be if there were two or three devs consistently working on it but I digress...


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