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  1. #1
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    Wow loses 1.3 million players in 1st Qtr of 2013

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/world-o...ecline-6408129
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2418730,00.asp
    "The game publisher, which announced earnings Wednesday, said WoW subscribers had dropped by 14 percent to 8.3 million in the first quarter. That's also down from an all-time high of 12 million active subscribers in 2010, PCGamer noted. "

    As many of you already read, world of warcraft in the first 3 months of 2013, has lost 1.3 million subscribers.

    This is more than I thought. I know people hate dailies, but could it be they just banned the botters and stopped /follow in the battlegrounds?

    But then again does botting/multiboxing make up 14% of the subscriber base, I don't think so.

    When MoP was talked about in 2011, I heard, how great the head enchant is gone; we don't have to worry about rep.
    Then every good recipe in MoP you needed rep, was a mistake.
    People don't want to do dailies for several different and distinct quest lines.
    Just make everything learnable by a trainer, stop with the go someplace and run a week of dailies.

    Remember in Cata doing the fireland quest line, took me a month to get enough of those stupid Mark of the World Tree coins. They didn't learn then. Then didn't learn then that people do not want to do long quest lines just to craft gear.

    So the only important thing I have read in these articles to me was, "World of Warcraft will release content 'more frequently' to stem player decline".

    More patches mean more raiders, more gear, more gems, more enchants more gold for me.

    It doesn't bother me at all that we lost 14%, I have two more shadow priests to level from 86 to 90, and then I have to figure out do I actually roll a panda.
    Last edited by jimmyolsenblues; May 9th, 2013 at 07:33 AM.
    @jimmyolsenblues on twitter https://twitter.com/#!/jimmyolsenblues

  2. #2
    US -Uldum (H)
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    I actually didn't mind the Molten Front dailies too much. Being on an RP-PvP realm and having a cool new battleground zone was kinda neat - because, at the time, those were the only real dailies I needed to do. Of course, it wasn't as necessary - I did it mostly for the achievements.

    But your implicit point is that Blizzard really doesn't listen to itself and do what it says. And that's a point I completely agree with. I honestly wish they'd stop designing to feed the content whores and just make a fun game.
    Some will; Some won't - So what? Let em die poor.

    +Rep doesn't buy me beer, but it sure gives me a reason to have one - if you learned something new or thought about something differently, let's celebrate!

    Late Nite With Stede - A WoW Goldmaking Blog / Podcast - LNWS.net
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  3. #3
    US-Kilrogg(H)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyolsenblues View Post
    As many of you already read, world of warcraft in the first 3 months of 2013, has lost 1.3 million subscribers.

    This is more than I thought. I know people hate dailies, but could it be they just banned the botters and stopped /follow in the battlegrounds?

    But then again does botting/multiboxing make up 14% of the subscriber base, I don't think so.

    When MoP was talked about in 2011, I heard, how great the head enchant is gone; we don't have to worry about rep.
    Then every good recipe in MoP you needed rep, was a mistake.
    People don't want to do dailies for several different and distinct quest lines.
    Just make everything learnable by a trainer, stop with the go someplace and run a week of dailies.
    Here is the direct quote from Greg Street:

    "In previous expansions, the head enchants on the faction vendors served to force players into that content. You couldn't even choose which reputation to pursue -- you had to pursue the one with your specific head enchant. Our design intent for MoP is to give players options in how to play, and the head enchant design wasn't compatible with that."

    source:
    http://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=5149537803 (the original battle.net post appears to not be operative, this is archived from wowhead)

    I completely agree with Stede. Blizzard does not listen to itself - at least not anymore. From my viewpoint, they got it so so so right with Wrath (well except for trial of the crusader), and have gotten it unbelievably wrong with Mists.

    I think scenarios are just easy quick content to feed people. Blizzard has admitted as much, because it takes a lot less effort to design scenarios. Also, in each of the past 3 expansions, there were 5man dungeons that came out in conjunction with the final raid, such that people could catch up with gear.

    On top of that, gear level scaling is astonishingly broken. There are certain classes that gain exponential increases in combat performace (speaking mostly of dps here) at certain secondary stat break points. And often times, in lower level gear, your combat effectiveness is almost moot in compared to people in better gear. Anyone doing LFR recently will see there is often 1-3 people with huge dps numbers (100-150k depending on the fight), and then a bunch of other people doing 1/2 or less of that. Not to mention certain trinkets are completely broken, and weapons for melee seem to have an even more profound effect than ever.

    What makes MMO's and online/multiplayer D&D games so great is the first "D" - dungeons. They gave us mounds and mounds of dungeons in Wrath, tons of leveling dungeons that were fun, pretty, and had mostly cool stories. Yes, they became faceroll very quickly, but that's what the casual player wants - on top of the fact that it was way way easier to gear up an alt and do some significant progression raiding with alt characters. This is a virtual impossibility with wow's current interation, even the most dedicated player can have maybe 1 highly geared alt, but that's it. A far cry from previous xpacs. And considering endless dungeons is the exact design of Diablo 3, it feels like they broke their own game design in moving in the "Mists of Pandailya" design decision.

    I feel like it's a matter of "Don't fix what isn't broken," and the more they try to fix their game, the more they break it. Because when there are official statements coming from Exodus/vodka stating they were burnt out specifically mentioning all the dailies, it isn't just the casual guy who feels he can't catch up.
    Last edited by Pyromelter; May 9th, 2013 at 01:39 PM.

  4. #4
    US -Uldum (H)
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    To the point - WoW isn't that great of a game by itself. It is an amazing social game, though. Scenarios pair you with 2 people, each kind doing their own thing a lot of the time. Raiding is social, but the normal difficulty is tuned so high that a lot of social guilds give up, lose purpose, break up and unsub. LFD is now obsolete, so no social element there. LFR is not social really at all. What you have is that a lot of what actually retains the playerbase - social interaction (not so much content) - has been degraded for sake of convenience.

    But tell me how convenient is it to sit in a 15-20 minute queue when there's really nobody to chat with? So, there's just so many things that are different from back in whatever day that we enjoyed wow. And a lot of it is that the playerbase doesn't so much turnover as it turns around and recurs - folks come back to the game after so many years, to find it vastly changed from what it was. Anyway, just a few extra thoughts there.
    Some will; Some won't - So what? Let em die poor.

    +Rep doesn't buy me beer, but it sure gives me a reason to have one - if you learned something new or thought about something differently, let's celebrate!

    Late Nite With Stede - A WoW Goldmaking Blog / Podcast - LNWS.net
    @StedeUS on Twitter
    Stede#1203

  5. #5
    US-Kilrogg(H)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stede View Post
    To the point - WoW isn't that great of a game by itself. It is an amazing social game, though. Scenarios pair you with 2 people, each kind doing their own thing a lot of the time. Raiding is social, but the normal difficulty is tuned so high that a lot of social guilds give up, lose purpose, break up and unsub. LFD is now obsolete, so no social element there. LFR is not social really at all. What you have is that a lot of what actually retains the playerbase - social interaction (not so much content) - has been degraded for sake of convenience.

    But tell me how convenient is it to sit in a 15-20 minute queue when there's really nobody to chat with? So, there's just so many things that are different from back in whatever day that we enjoyed wow. And a lot of it is that the playerbase doesn't so much turnover as it turns around and recurs - folks come back to the game after so many years, to find it vastly changed from what it was. Anyway, just a few extra thoughts there.
    I wish every forum had a thumbs up or like button, because while I can hit the +rep thing, it doesn't do justice to how much I agree with this. My firm believe is that they got it right in Wrath. 10man normal mode raids were slightly harder than LFR is right now, and it allowed a lot of casual people to raid and get raid geared, as well as easy gearing of alts. This allowed people to really socialize and have fun in a raid setting.

    Trade chat, while often being trollish, was often a way many people got together to meet for groups, for actual trade, and to socialize. I know plenty of people who used to log into wow because they liked doing laps in Dalaran, hanging out in /g and /2.

    I also believe, and I think this was a change in wrath, that the removal of /LFG as a global channel was a big mistake. Other MMO's have global-type channels, as well as cross-faction chat, and I believe it is extremely archaic and walling that blizzard continues to not allow people to communicate while they are out in the world.

  6. #6
    hag
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    I am in the minority, but one of the few things I liked in MoP was the decline of 5-person instances. They are usually bland, can be good, but can also be horrible. When I think of my worst WoW times, the horror stories, it almost always involves pugging a 5-person. So I did zero or one at less than max level and did the minimal and only on raiders at max level. I find Scenarios to be a much more pleasant Skinner Box than 5-person.

    It could just be my mood, but I continue to feel that SWTOR is so much more alt-friendly than MoP, especially for crafters. Making faction rep be Battlenet.wide and crafting mats and recipes being BoA not BoP would make a huge impact. I wish Blizzard would go that way. For me, it is not so much about dailies per se as what the existing systems do to alts, especially crafting alts.

    Oh well. if Wildstar, TESO, EQ3, and GW2.1 ship this year and WoW 6 ships next year, this won't be the last of these conversations we have.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyolsenblues View Post
    Remember in Cata doing the fireland quest line, took me a month to get enough of those stupid Mark of the World Tree coins. They didn't learn then. Then didn't learn then that people do not want to do long quest lines just to craft gear.

    So the only important thing I have read in these articles to me was, "World of Warcraft will release content 'more frequently' to stem player decline".

    More patches mean more raiders, more gear, more gems, more enchants more gold for me.
    The problem is they're catering to subscriber behavior. A lot of players subscribe after a new patch drops. Mess around, then unsub again. Blizzard's conclusion is that they're bored. So they made things more stretched out so people would have more to do before they got bored... of course when those things to do are mindnumbing boring then it doesn't matter if there's more. People get bored without finishing.

    GL is a perfect example. It's the 5 dailies out of 13 possible to start, which sounds like a lot until you realize you have to do those until revered... Then as you go up into rep, there are 4 hubs that more or less have the *same* dailies (whitepetal lake is distilled to: collect junk from water, kill stuff in the water, kill whatever's attacking the guards, and pick up junk around the shore - no matter how many names they give them).

    And what's worse is that as you unlock more hubs; you don't get more rewards. You even lose the ability to collect your reward after 5 dailies! How frustrating is that?

    I think they learned their lesson for Isle of Thunder. The number of dailies before you get a Trove actually goes down between stages and you have the option to do more dailies for more troves. And at stage 3 (I think) You get a real choice between what kind of dailies you do!

    Plus, the Isle of Thunder has a real catch-up mechanism; as simple as it is - do all the scenarios up to the current stage.

    Personally, I miss 5-mans, but I understand why they're gone. They turn into a faceroll so quickly in the expansion and no one is ever happy with how they're tuned. But they were fun and something you could do with a small friends list and a small time commitment. Neither thing you can say about LFR though (especially with some of the ToT fights on LFR...).

    Scenarios do a really poor job recreating the feel of 5-mans too; I'm not sure if they're hopelessly flawed without roles /bosses or if Blizz just needs to figure out a better way to recreate that 'team' feel. What I find weird is that Blizz claims they do scenarios because they can make several scenarios in the time it takes to make a 5-man... but we haven't gotten any new scenarios since launch either (I know they announced heroic scenarios for 5.3 and I consider the ToT scenarios glorified phased quests, which they've done before)

    I don't blame Blizzard too much for 'not listening' to themselves, because they say contradictory things to begin with and what they say publicly sometimes competes with what they see internally (the sub/unsub pattern wasn't publicly mentioned until recently I believe). But I do feel that they keep saying the way things were in Vanilla / TBC are obsolete while at the same time designing MoP to force people back to that style of play (grinds, very strictly tuned raid mechanics, alt unfriendly), not really sure how to articulate it, but hopefully you get what I mean.

    But MoP isn't all bad.

    I really loved the questing experience. I really love Pet Battles. I like the concept of the Wrathion questline (if not the implementation) giving the expansion a strong unifying story and goal to work towards (but again it's so grindy...).

    Overally, MoP gave people goals that couldn't be blasted through (something Cata didn't do other than MF, which like Stede I enjoyed. Unfortunately took away everything that was good about it and magnified everything that was bad about it for the initial crop of reputation dailies). One of the biggest complaints in Cata was that there just wasn't much to do outside of raiding, which is understandable when they added 2 races and completely redesigned the majority of the 1-60 zones. But again, they just went overboard and decided everyone should raid, wrongly concluding that the lack of LFR was the only reason people didn't do it before...

  8. #8
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    I think a lot of people are (understandably) using the news regarding declining subscriptions as a blank canvas upon which they can project whatever they personally dislike most about the game. But that's subjective and will end up being contradictory since different things drive different populations of players nuts.

    I'd be really interested in knowing what's influencing the numbers (outside of the simple fact that the game's been around so long) but I'm just not seeing any really robust information about it. And Blizzard isn't sharing much.

  9. #9
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    People from different era's in wow have different expectations of the game.

    The loss of players is natural and has been happening for a while now.

    The 12 million players reality was possibly made up of 20% (maybe more) of gold selling/botting players.

    As the decline in players occurs naturally the gold sellers will as well.

    The best expansion is very much up for debate as to when you started.

    Beta players still playing - vanilla due to the game was a challenge and that is why they played it, epic gear was actually epic and ment something. (people left because the game was too hard and time consuming if you wanted to progress)
    Vanillia (not already raiding) - TBC because it introduced raiding to many more people while still being challenging
    TBC (non 25 man raiders) - Wrath due to the fact 10 man raiding became more mainstream (the welfare epic system grew from the trial time in tbc) (towards the end of people left due to "welfare epics")
    Wrath - Tends to be still a favourite as it was when casual raiding really happened and also 25 man and 10 man gear was different so there was still some I am better than you as I raid 25 man "see my gear, i killed 25 man of the bosses you have" (people quit as game was becoming easier and not challenging (top guilds clearing end game content in 2 days of it launching)
    Cata - These players tend to run older raids and be into transmog which is an encouragement to run the older raids to find the gear they want. people left due to game being too easy and therefore boring
    MoP - I very much doubt there are any true new subscriptions in mop, maybe some old players with a scroll of res but not many truely new players. this latest people quitting is probably people that came back and me the gring or lfr and thought why bother the game has moved to a lower age limit and is targetted as teenagers and very early 20's, the social aspect of the game is quickly being taken away, not grouping for world raid bosses, isle of thunder raids, as long as you damage it you get loot or gold. no need to group up or be spoken to about your gear just stay quiet and hit the boss a couple of times then just keep out the way.
    Last edited by Reviamjolly; May 9th, 2013 at 06:04 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlyn View Post
    I think a lot of people are (understandably) using the news regarding declining subscriptions as a blank canvas upon which they can project whatever they personally dislike most about the game. But that's subjective and will end up being contradictory since different things drive different populations of players nuts.

    I'd be really interested in knowing what's influencing the numbers (outside of the simple fact that the game's been around so long) but I'm just not seeing any really robust information about it. And Blizzard isn't sharing much.
    It's definitely true. Blizzard is basically in an impossible situation. MMO's generally speaking allow you to do what ever you want in the end game and in the past that's how people played WoW. I did 5-mans and BGs during TBC, I raided 10 mans in LK, and Cata I burned through dailies and heroics and stopped playing. Blizzard decided they couldn't support every style of play at end game; so they distilled it to rated BGs (I think? I don't PvP) and Raids. I agree that they had to narrow their focus, even if I don't agree with how they did it.

    They have leaked out some information here and there which really shows you why they made some of the decisions they did between expansions. And in a way hints at where they're losing subscribers.

    During LK they mentioned that the majority of players don't even get to lvl 20; they game was too newb unfriendly if you can believe that. That's why they extended the trial accounts to lvl 20 instead of being strict time based. If someone could make it to lvl 20 they were statistically much more likely to stick with the game so give them as much time as they wanted. That's also a big reason why they revamped the old world for Cata. It was getting old and they felt that they were losing potential new users left and right due to outdated leveling experiences.

    Cata is when subscriber numbers peaked, but it quickly fell off and each content patch brought a bump for the sub numbers. I think this is when the sub / unsub cycles became really noticeable (I don't remember LK going through similar subscribers up/down over it's lifetime even if I knew people who did it). I already wrote my essay above for how I think they responded to this in MoP, but I'm sure the net lost subscribers due to this behavior (as opposed to other reasons) had to be high enough for them to respond the way they did in MoP.

    But this is still conjecture from little information since as you said Blizzard isn't saying much.

 

 
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