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  • Resetting the Ebonsteel Belt Buckle Market

    Thanks to Sinshroud's idea with the market. I decided to post about resetting the Market.

    After had been listed bellow 200g for over a week (where they're usually between 250-350G price range) i decided to try and reset the market.
    The biggest problem i faced was the person who started the downfall of its price, he had been tanking the market with 20+ belt buckle's.
    To be honest it was a risky investment, i had no idea how many he had left in his inventory or how much mats he still had left.
    By buying everything out i might cause a chain reaction where he will continuously post large amounts of belt buckles for sub 200g.

    This is how the market looked before i made my move.



    As you can see i had to buyout a total of 42 belt buckles for a total price of 8325g
    I immediatly started distributing several buckles to alts so i could post from different characters and make it look like there wasn't one person trying to monopolize the market.


    After posting from all of my alts this is how the AH looked, note that every buckle at the AH at that point was mine. Posting at 2 different prices (both the most expensive and the cheapest) from my BS alt to make it look like i'm actually competing against other people. (No idea if this works, but i figure i'd do it as people will more likely post allong the new prices then when they see only a few posted. This to try and prevent people from comming in and think they should heavily undercut it back to the old price.)




    12Hrs later the market went down to 499g a piece, At this point i'm happy nobody bumped in and posted a whole bunch for a very low price.



    After a few days the market continuously went down to the price I feel is a good price, 250-300g, and where it will stay thanks to supply-demand.

    Now exactly 1 week after i originally reset the market i've sold 37 out of the 42 buckles i bought, making a total of 10373g.




    And after one week the market has stabilized to this:




    Final Conlusion

    Would i call this a succes?
    Time will tell, if prices stay this way then it definatly was.
    Not only have i managed to sell nearly everything i had to buy out, i was able to sell them for an average of 80g more then i bought them i also managed to restore the prices back to where i feel they're worth crafting/selling.

    With 5 buckles left to sell and a total of 10373g of what i've sold so far i managed to make 2048g profit and i still have 5 buckles left to sell before i have to craft anything.

    If i forgot to add anything or you have questions about what/how/why feel free to ask them.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Resetting the Ebonsteel Belt Buckle Market started by Davison View original post
    Comments 16 Comments
    1. Kammler's Avatar
      Kammler -
      Congrats! This is a great example of how to reset a market--many people forget to post from multiple alts. I think this is a very important detail.

      I have tried and occassionally succeeded in resetting different markets. It seems to work best by using multiple alts to re-post. I know when I see someone else trying to reset a market I will attempt to upset their plans if I can identify who it is, and if that person is a prime competitor.

      I would rather inflict pain on them than to benefit from the market reset. I'm just mean like that. Besides, I can always reset it myself later anyway.
    1. jchurch5566's Avatar
      jchurch5566 -
      Hi gang,
      Resetting a market is very difficult. I have only managed it once. I was able to control prices of 'Primal Mights' on both sides of my server for 2-3 weeks. 'Primal Mights' are much easier to control than most items, because the volumn is low and the raw materials are easier to control. In the two examples here, I would consider Simshoud's as failied and Davidson's as a marginal success. On my server Ebonsteel Belt Buckles are the closest thing to stealing that I can think of. I don't have a BS so I have to hire one. I pay them 10 Gold per buckel which I consider is a fair compensation. The Undermine Journel shows these numbers. Horde; cost 89G, avg. sale price: 205G. Alliance; cost 79G, avg. sale price: 216G. I sell 2-3 per day on both sides of my server.
    1. Life's Avatar
      Life -
      On my server the buckle mats cost 12g, 5g, 10g so around 108g total. The buckle sells for anything from 180 to 280 depending upon that day's supply. Several sellers repeatedly dump at 180g. 65-70% profit is a good return even when the market is at the low end so I tend to just drop in at whatever price they are at that particular time. The amount of raw mats available make it difficult to control this area so I don't even try to reset unless there are only a few buckles left up for sale, in which case I buy them and sell at the higher end prices. As soon as the price jumps over 300 you just see people in trade looking for BS's and then the market floods within minutes from people jumping in at the higher price, hence why I am happy to let them sell at 280 even if no other sellers are present at the time.
    1. Attica's Avatar
      Attica -
      I forwarded this link to my friend who enjoys tormenting the buckle market on our server. I'm sure he'll really appreciate this read. Thank you!
    1. DoubleO's Avatar
      DoubleO -
      It looks like you definitely came out ahead even if the market doesn't stay inflated. You did after all make a profit

      That said, I think it's important to point out that its not always a good idea to reset a market. Especially if you have to buy a lot of stock from your competition. If your competition is posting at prices they consider to be good profit all you are doing is motivating them to come back later with more stock. The materials for Ebonsteel Belt Buckles are pretty easy to come by, especially if there are botters on your server. My preference is usually to not let people in the belt buckle market get money out of their mailbox

      I do reset the market... but only if I can get away with only buying a few of my competitors out. And honestly, if they are someone who has really been under my skin lately I won't buy them out even if their one auction is the only one I'd have to buy. I'd much rather them lose money from wasted posting fees.
    1. Life's Avatar
      Life -
      Remember also on fast moving items like the buckle, or red gems, if there are not many auctions up you can sometimes achieve a reset just by posting a couple of your own items at an overcut price. So if there are 3 or 4 auctions that you dont want to buy (due to encouraging the seller to post more) around 200g, post two at 350g, then the next set of posters are likely to be undercutting at that price as the others have disappeared anyway. Later in the day (or evening) you can then undercut normally but still achieve the better prices. It does depend heavily on available volumes and buying rates, so just prior to raid time is more likely to work I suspect.

      This way also protects your losses if the reset doesnt work....instead of having a bunch of items to get rid of you have lost a few deposit fees. This method is also not fast money, as you have to allow time for the lower priced items to be bought.

      It's not compulsory to be the lowest priced items to achieve sales, it usuallhy helps, but consider the general factors of supply and demand.
    1. Life's Avatar
      Life -
      JMTC just put up a post linking to this thread, suggesting that Aeg made 85k in a day from this type of reset. Good for traffic possibly, but I'm not sure about those kind of numbers. Any clarification in here for us.?
    1. wuRm's Avatar
      wuRm -
      Quote Originally Posted by Life View Post
      JMTC just put up a post linking to this thread, suggesting that Aeg made 85k in a day from this type of reset. Good for traffic possibly, but I'm not sure about those kind of numbers. Any clarification in here for us.?
      Because someone wanted to reset the price and controll the market, so Aeg just listed under his threshold, causing him to buy everything Aeg had (or most depending on Aeg's stock, and the amount of gold the buyer had) and 85k is just allot of stock
    1. Davison's Avatar
      Davison -
      Quote Originally Posted by Life View Post
      JMTC just put up a post linking to this thread, suggesting that Aeg made 85k in a day from this type of reset. Good for traffic possibly, but I'm not sure about those kind of numbers. Any clarification in here for us.?
      I dont see why that had to be linked to this thread tbh, its not like Aeg made 85K on me... And the way it was linked definatly makes it look like that..

      On another not i saw quite some replies implying "controlling the market", i had no intention to control the market, the only intention i had was to try and raise the items price to raise the profit on it.
      If i would try to drive out my competitors for a long time and keep buying them out then you could say i was trying to control the market, this was just a price reset.
    1. wuRm's Avatar
      wuRm -
      I think Mageshadow linked your post for a example of a type of market manipulation, and Aeg ran into someone trying to do what you did, but with unrealistic prices, and it became buyout game for the guy to get his prices where he wanted them.

      I agree it could of been linked a little better: for an example of manipulating a market the right way. or something in that line.

      I never Implied, or meant to imply that you were trying to control a market
    1. mentally vexed's Avatar
      mentally vexed -
      I did this successfully today myself, since I don't have a blacksmith I bought out the entire market (a whole 9 buckles!) for 150g and sent a few to an alt to list. The floor for a buckle is now up to 300g and i've already made more than my money back.
    1. Aeg's Avatar
      Aeg -
      Just to clarify, It seems Mage did make a mistake with his post and connected two seperate incidents that both involved attempted resets of the belt buckle market. I did indeed do ~85k in sales to one guy who was determined to buy me out and reset the market. Needless to say it was a fun day.
    1. Vince's Avatar
      Vince -
      Quote Originally Posted by Davison View Post
      Production cost off the AH is 88g/piece.
      While it may seem to be greedy to not be happy with the 195g a piece do know i'm on a low populated faction where belt buckles dont move that fast,
      on top days i might sell 4/day, 2/ day on average.
      Kinda hate to be "that guy," but if it costs you 88g to make, and they were selling for ~190g, that's 102g profit, which is a decent amount more than what you ended up averaging. So you could have made more had you simply bought mats, made them, and sold them at their "regular" price.

      Granted, resetting the market did have the potential to bring in much more, but with the already good profit margins on the buckles, there was a good chance you could have lost a lot more too. The guy "crashing" the market could have started selling at 190g, effectively shutting you out while still making really good profits for himself.

      Glad to hear it worked out though. And I definitely like the idea of the alt-posting smokescreen. I might have to try that out sometime.
    1. Davison's Avatar
      Davison -
      Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
      Kinda hate to be "that guy," but if it costs you 88g to make, and they were selling for ~190g, that's 102g profit, which is a decent amount more than what you ended up averaging. So you could have made more had you simply bought mats, made them, and sold them at their "regular" price.

      Granted, resetting the market did have the potential to bring in much more, but with the already good profit margins on the buckles, there was a good chance you could have lost a lot more too. The guy "crashing" the market could have started selling at 190g, effectively shutting you out while still making really good profits for himself.

      Glad to hear it worked out though. And I definitely like the idea of the alt-posting smokescreen. I might have to try that out sometime.
      You're absolutely right about the decent profit margin even at 190g, but this is a very slow market on my faction (small to medium populated) so i'm lucky if i even sell 4 a day, 2-3 on average and checking for undercuts regularly, unless i'm babysitting my auctions on that char, then i can sell a bit more.

      So i think i had allot more to gain by resetting the market then to go allong at 190g.
      There's offcourse some risk involved, but aint that with allot of things we do? :-p

      PS: They're now steadily selling for 290-300 gold.
    1. Mugsley's Avatar
      Mugsley -
      This is interesting, if only because if I were to do something similar, I'd attack the mats side at the same time. You and Sinshroud both focused purely on the finished goods, which surprises me a little. Granted, the mats are regularly available for both items, but at least for gems, it shouldn't be difficult to exert a bit of control on the raw Inferno market.

      Back when I tried something similar, it involved Titanium Bars and Saronite Bars in Wrath; and I was already attacking the ore market to keep prices up. Very interesting, though, both the items that you guys chose and your resulting success.

      If I were to do something similar, I would probably choose something slightly more niche such as . It is worth noting that both of you didn't attempt to drive prices through the roof, but simply move them to a price point that they would be expected to sell on your servers.
    1. Aeg's Avatar
      Aeg -
      is to an extent easier to control the supply then inferno rubies as inferno rubies require your to control elementium/obsidium ore/ and pyrite ore to a lesser extent to keep people from prospecting. The buckles if you can control pyrite you can control buckles.
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    92 = Gorgrond Outpost. [<40 mins]
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    • 92 (to push 94; can start at 91 too)
    • 94-95 (to push 96)


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    • Recommended: I prefer Arsenal since the quests are quite straightforward and the stun and damage on Artillery Strike lets me do some extra rares very fast along the way;
    • Unlock all Level 2 Small Buildings (except Salvage Yard);
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    • Bonus Tip: When upgrading to Level 2, you should leave your previous Work Orders in the building until you assign a follower to it. You can start queueing more for another day (7 done, but 7 more to go up to 14), so you have time to get one or level a bit more, and still get the full extras. This is because it only matters if the follower is there when you pick them up.
    • Unlock 2 important profession followers in this zone: Enchanting and Tailoring (all of them quick enough, without a quest chain, and you can also get an additional rare one with Bodyguard nearby: Alliance / Horde);
    • Unlock a Level 2 Large Building (Comprehensive Outpost Construction Guide), essentially either Barracks or Dwarven Bunker / War Mill (this upgrade is not as important as the others, it's more about preference):

    • Barracks to keep the extra missions (they don't make much of a difference though) and using Bodyguards - you'll get at least one in Ashran (91 Stormshield/Warspear intro quest) and another in Talador, and if you're going to level to 96 or more you'll be ready to use Leorajh);
    • Dwarven Bunker / War Mill for the upgrades that (now) allow you to disenchant blues for a lot more dust than greens, (epics under ilvl 600 still give ).


    => This point at level 94-95 is already maxing out your Work Order production. It's the best return for your time investment, and you don't get much more than the Herb Garden after this, until you go on to 100 and Level 3 Garrison, with all the buildings. <=


    96 = Level 1 and 2 Herb Garden unlock.
    • More daily Primal Spirits, Apexis Shards (but less than the Mine) and herbs - especially Frostweed.


    96 = Spires of Arak Outpost. [<20 mins]
    • Recommended: Brewery for Skinning follower. You can get Ziri'ak and other items from Smuggler's Den if you change it afterwards, but you'll never get the Skinning follower if you do it the other way around.
    • Unlock your second Level 2 Medium/Small Building free upgrade (this is only useful if you want a different Level 2 Medium Building or if you skipped Gorgrond, as you need Level 3 Garrison to have 2 Medium Buildings active at the same time);
    • Unlock 2 important profession followers:

    • Inscription trait follower (A / H). As Alliance, start right after Spires of Arak Outpost (it's a 20 minute or worse questline with random drops and grinding that can be too time consuming and boring - another reason for getting one from the Inn/Tavern at 92+);
    • Skinning (Barn) trait follower (A / H); available after unlocking Outpost only if you picked the Brewery (inn). As Alliance, start with Befriending the Locals going back to Veil Terokk, then follow those quests until you're back at Southport and find Attempted Murder at the front of the inn. [Work In Progress - As Horde, I'm not sure, but something similar about going to Veil Terokk first probably happens since I've found a Horde version of this quest but not sure about the rest];

    • Unlock Salvage Yard (Small Building completely unavailable until you do this) by questing in Pinchwhistle Gearworks (and Point), Spires of Arak (take flight path from Southport after unlocking Outpost);
    • Unlock Engineering trait follower (Alliance or Horde, especially important for Horde since they don't have one at starting zone) at Pinchwhistle too;
    • Unlock Leorajh especially if you went for Level 2 Barracks (97 rare with Bodyguard that heals and offers the ability to do missions wherever you are after you leveled it up).


    98 = Nagrand
    • At this point, you probably won't be missing the second free Large Building, the only Mining follower, nor the higher level Skinning one. There's really nothing to add after all that becomes available at 96. You'll need to reach 100 for more.


    MISSIONS STRATEGY

    For a better experience with Missions, I'm currently using 4 Garrison addons (they are new and there might be some LUA edits necessary to make them work properly, check the support sites):
    • Master Plan = Adds tooltips to the missions list UI, mostly for abilities, and colors their borders giving you an overview of what you can do. Also adds panels showing you the total of each trait and ability you have, and an "Active Missions" tab.
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    • GarrisonCommander = Expanded mouse-over tooltip showing all the available followers, their level or ilevel and success chance. Also allows you to move the Missions panel.
    • Breeze = Simple addon, instead of Master Plan's single page summary (which you can love if you don't want the details), this one simply skips most animations and opens the rewards from chests without having to click on them.

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