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  1. #11
    Belmorn's Avatar
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    I dont really get what you are on, but thats whats these forums are for, to be educated and despite my fair share of wealth Im not blind to see my wrongs or that I cant learn.

    So eventhough this isnt the initial threads issue and more a TSM issue, I havent really found a way to easily spot glyphs that can be reset easily. To me it involves looking into the glyphs manually ( per class in auctionator from my head ) but this still involves 25 clicks per class to spot something that can be reset. with 10 classes this takes quite some time, but sure it can be worth it if you catch your opponent off guard or you have time to mess around with him. If there is a button / tweak / easy way to spot this then please enlighten me to make this a two minute job.

    The proactive thing is to cut off his supplies I guess taking all the non overpriced herbs similar to the ore strategy mentioned elsewhere which Im sure you have read. This strategy also involves putting in a lot of time as you regularly need to snipe herbs going below your new threshold and it might even be completely invain as he has his own suppliers who arent posting on the AH. After getting herb prices high you buy out all his glyphs and relist - with your opponent not being able to recover very well from it until herb prices settle down again - which you with the proactive approach wont allow to happen. Am I talking nonsense here or is this the active approach you mean by making things happen other than snipe resetting glyph prices ? I see how its working, but I also see flaws in it and another major time sink trying to control this.

    I guess you can rephrase the word good as in good auctioneer with patient auctioneer though , point taken.

    With well priced wall my look on it is to know your herb market, define the price of a glyph, add the price of the paper to it and then include the profit you can be bothered with going over the milling process and crafting glyphs. There are always people willing to go below that , but in the past year in which I have had decent activity in the glyph market ( pretty much got serious into it a few weeks before glyphmas ) those people tend to die out pretty out and at the prices Im willing to go for at some point the regular names keep coming back. Other than that make it thick enough that your opponent wont buy it out easily and relist higher, but this depends on how active you are really on it. More logins a day means you can settle with less glyphs per glyph kind as you can catch up faster to resets - making your potential profit loss less.

  2. #12
    Kathroman's Avatar
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    http://consortium.stormspire.net/auc...et-glyphs.html

    There's some good information there - I usually use a similar approach.

    Cutting off supplies is one approach, but it's certainly not the only one. The sooner you can train yourself to routinely thinking outside the box, the easier things get. I think a lot of people (not even specifically yourself) have come to this place where they think there is a fixed response for every AH situation they come up against. It just isn't true. In the same way that Blizzard has tried to remove hard counters from PvP, the economic game isn't linear.

    Regarding the smart wall - this is one of the reasons why I hate "walls" - the difference between doing your research, planning it all out and just arbitrarily selecting some number because it "sounds good" is very thin. In order to properly and effectively execute a good wall - it requires time and effort. Price is a big factor in a wall - but it's not the only one. The reason I asked about the "well-priced" wall is to point out the fact that somebody could arbitrarily arrive at the same price point as you without putting half as much thought into it. Does that mean their wall is going to be as successful as yours? Probably not, because (what I'm getting at) the full-fledged strategy requires much more than that in order to be truly effective.
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  3. #13
    Belmorn's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link, Ill take a look at it when I can.

    And no, assuming the player is human the AH game changes constantly.
    f.e. He can wall above your wall playing your game right back at you until you get tired of crafting constantly and not being able to see the rest of azeroth if you only have one account.

    Im not sure if we are still talking about the same issue : dealing with this undercutter in his thing - in this case glyphs. If you hint at the obvious diversifying of goods that can be made of the cinderbloom / whiptail ( usually cheapest ) to evaporate some of the herbs , thats not really dealing with him, its moving away from him increasing your GPH - which is valid dont get me wrong.

    I got the idea from the OP that this guy mentioned is the typical no life guy so posting straight after him to get your sales has limited effect - not even mentioning posting another round is a considerable time investment if you have multiple scribs on the server who tend to do similar behaviour.

    Going cross faction if the prices are favourable ? Sure thing takes hours to set up, but once you are done its just another 10 mins per session and see if you dont meet another jerk on the other side.

    I personally dont have the time and willpower to really go with a wall - Im not the most experienced player around at that part. As my price at which Im willing to post usually gets undercut by 2-3 other auctioneers, I dont even have to bother with the wall as others already do it for me without them knowing it by undercutting. Does this mean I sometimes get my glyphs flipped ? Probably - I end up with a decent payment regardless for my 10 mins session twice a day so not bothered with others making a coin as well. My experience with people is that if you piss em off hard enough by them not making a coin then 9 out of 10 buzz off , but the other 1 can become fed up and shape up and become a really hard nut to deal with in the long run.

    Lastly reporting obvious farm bots ( full pvp gear, no glyphs, no enchants , herb / mining and not having pvp achievements you would expect of a real pvper and always in uldum especially at night or early morning ) to dry out supply takes time, effort and might not work ( they arent getting banned ). You have to prepare for this though, doing this when you have 0 stock will hurt you more than do you good.

    If Im still missing obvious things feel free to link me thread where this is handled or PM as I can see you are biting your tongue.

  4. #14
    Xsinthis's Avatar
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    Diversify. Walk away for now, build up your liquid. When you're ready to make your triumphant return, buy him out. Every single glyph, buy him out faster than he can make them.

    Obviously you can't do that with 30k, so move on for now and return.

  5. #15
    Kathroman's Avatar
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    @Belmorn - I'm not biting my tongue at all - there's no secret answer The situation is what you make of it. That advice is widely applicable. You mentioned before about the purpose of these forums being educational, and that is what I've provided. It might not be the answer the OP or others are hoping for, but it's what you're gonna get. I could plainly spell out a handful of different strategies, but I think it's ultimately more "educational" to simply allude to the fact that there are multiple ways to approach this scenario.

    It's a culturally accepted belief that we learn more from our mistakes and from our individual experiences. Along that vein - go out and try something new, you'll be a better goblin because of it
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  6. #16
    Problem is since the glyph market was so easy to get into, I'm reading more into the forums for what other things to attack. Is there a place I can post my toons/alts and get an idea of where to go and what to check into considering 30k is basically what I have to work with?

  7. #17
    Everyday I'm shuff-ff-ff-lin'

  8. #18
    Belmorn's Avatar
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    @Kathroman, you say you arent biting the tongue, just stating you dont want to write out full strategies or even small things to try out, that doesnt make sense at all. I dont need a magic answer, its just not very informative either to post there are alternatives but you dont feel like postig it because you believe in self education.

    Regardless , in other threads, you and several others responded more or less the same to what has been written out before in this thread :

    http://consortium.stormspire.net/auc...-damned-2.html
    http://consortium.stormspire.net/auc...-glyphs-2.html
    http://thegoldmint.blogspot.com/2011...pers_8018.html
    http://foo-wow.blogspot.com/2011/08/...at-camper.html

    Granted these threads are ~3 to 6 months old, but I dont see anything that has changed significantly since then. Lots of windtrader responses in there ( including yourself ) and I doubt they are all biting their tongue ( you bastards :P ), but what most say comes down to adjusting threshold if needed, move on, once the camper gets tired, move thresholds again slowly. If the camper doesnt tire then just post twice a day and use your time for more usefull stuff on the AH and let him enjoy his crums for a while you do guerallia flipping potentially even earning more than the camper.

    With TSM oversimplifying things and that causing it making it to be easy for everyone to compete in a once for the most hardcore only glyph market.
    You can exploit newcomers with a wrongly configured TSM, that doesnt happen more than twice to the same guy though or he is just generally stupid which will make him not being able to keep up in the long run anyway.
    Last edited by Belmorn; October 26th, 2011 at 06:44 AM.

  9. #19
    Kathroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmorn View Post
    @Kathroman, you say you arent biting the tongue, just stating you dont want to write out full strategies or even small things to try out, that doesnt make sense at all. I dont need a magic answer, its just not very informative either to post there are alternatives but you dont feel like postig it because you believe in self education.
    Informative, no - but that isn't the point. It's helpful, and I've explained why. It essentially boils down to the old "give a man a fish" addage. Straight outta the About & Contact page

    The Consortium is a community focused on the discussion of gold-making in World of Warcraft.
    It's not about hand-holding, or coddling people. I would also hope that at this point, based on the way this community has developed, that isn't what people come here expecting anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belmorn View Post
    Regardless , in other threads, you and several others responded more or less the same to what has been written out before in this thread :

    http://consortium.stormspire.net/auc...-damned-2.html
    http://consortium.stormspire.net/auc...-glyphs-2.html
    The Gold Mint: Dealing with obsessive campers
    Foo's WoW musings: What to do with that camper?

    Granted these threads are ~3 to 6 months old, but I dont see anything that has changed significantly since then. Lots of windtrader responses in there ( including yourself ) and I doubt they are all biting their tongue ( you bastards :P ), but what most say comes down to adjusting threshold if needed, move on, once the camper gets tired, move thresholds again slowly.
    This isn't at all the same thing as throwing a wall up AT your threshold and walking away - which was what I first took issue with anyway. In order to be effective at anything, I'd suggest that you at least need to follow a basic input model of "feedback->response". This includes a glyph wall. It's the walking away which sends the message that "I'm at a loss", IMO - not the pricing. You can have the best pricing in the world, but if you aren't monitoring your wall and your competition's actions/reactions, all you are really doing is hoping for the best or waiting him out.

    The reason I don't advocate glyph walls is because it is actually an advanced technique - not because it's a bad idea. It IS a bad idea, however, to do it poorly. "Throw up a wall" has become a sort of canned message at this point, and the biggest problem is that it isn't enough information to actually help someone to be successful. If you just go and throw up a wall and walk away - you allow the other person the opportunity to learn more about you than you will about them. Even worse, when they counter in some way and you don't know how to handle it - you've now revealed your hand to them and exposed your inexperience. If someone can explain to me the benefit in giving your competition a psychological advantage over you, I'd love to hear it .

    So, the reason why I would recommend someone "adjust their fallback and thresholds" and move to a 48hr less involved posting schedule would be to maintain a CASUAL presence in the market until an opportunity presented itself (ie. you have a better understanding of how to handle the situation - you have more time/resources at your disposal, etc.) instead of diving in head first with an AGGRESSIVE tactic such as a glyph wall.

    The problem with AH PvP is that once you've aggro'ed your opponent - there's no [spell]Vanish[/spell], [spell]Feign Death[/spell] or threat dump ability when you realize you're in over your head. That's why I'd say it would be best to either stay in [spell]Stealth[/spell] our just outside of range until you're ready to actually finish the fight.

    I know this still isn't "helpful" or "informative" - but hopefully you will at least come to realize why I don't think that's what this situation needs anyway. No advice is better than bad or incomplete advice...
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  10. #20
    unp's Avatar
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    My purpose with a 48 hour posting wall is to discourage camping. I don't want to get involved with an attrition war of who can camp longer in the glyph market as I have other markets I need to worry about as well. When i wall it off I hope I get undercut because I'd rather not sell glyphs at that price. I get to walk away from it for the next 48 hours while knowing that my competition is now burning up their stock while making very little money. A week or two of this and people usually get the message. I also go for glyph walls when I know that I'm going to be away and unable to post for at least 2 days. It tends to minimize the hole I leave when I'm out of action.

    If glyphs are your only/primary market it may not be ideal for you.

 

 

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