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  1. #1
    Undine's Avatar
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    RMT Fueling, Who Dunnit?

    As an avid AH goblin I've come to see trends in a lot of things in regards to the commerce within our servers. I can't help but notice though a very big one, that may not be as evident to the common player, but almost all-encompassing to the big time AH traders.

    The bulk of our trade goods come from RMT's.

    I'm sure a lot of you who've been in the AH game for a while have taken advantage of this as well. I doubt anyone could admit that their eyes didn't light up when they saw Xssadfg selling 200 stacks of Saronite for less than the vendor value. It's not like you could avoid it really, they dump so much on the AH and to personal COD'ers that if you didn't, you'd be sunk trying to compete with the profit thresholds of those who did.

    I think a great example of this was displayed on my server just prior to Cata. Pretty much all the farmers disappeared. While most people would see this as a point to rejoice, traders were largely left to scrape profits off their stockpiles and frugal real-player sellers.

    I can even admit that after they disappeared my sales ground to almost a halt. With no more midnight postings of hundreds of commodities, my little crafting factories had to make cutbacks. This also drove up prices on my server as no one could really buy cheap raw goods anymore.


    Now that Cata has come out, I'm starting to see the farmers return along with their massive stockpiles of goods. I've also noticed a few of those hacked account fire-sales taking place. Those in themselves are a gold mine if you're in SW and quick to reply. But I won't even get in to those as those are a bit more shady…

    At any rate, I'm curious, what are other traders views on this subject? The RMT's are starting to rear their ugly little heads again. Will you be taking advantage of them? Do you count on them for your crafting empires? Do you farm your own goods instead in the name of morality? What do you do when you can't get your commodity fix from your fair-priced farmhands?

  2. #2
    Aeg's Avatar
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    Had to do some googling to figure out what RMT is. I assume it stands for Real Money Trading and not a Registered Massage Therapist I would like to use my gold for?
    Experience for mining/herbing - Making farming tolerable and leveling painful.
    There can only be one Rewind Trader

  3. #3
    Bleach's Avatar
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    I believe many people are truly idiots, so some of them post their products for outrageously low prices because of stupidity. It's difficult to tell the difference between a moron and an RMT, especially now with batch posting built into the game. For example, there was a guy on my server listing full 200 stacks of for 300g a stack. I honestly thought the guy was botting on the Isle of Quel'danas. I even reported him after he kept consistently posting every week (and I bought enough tomes to get all my alts to exalted).

    Fast-forward a month later, and this same character is posting guild ads and chatting in Trade. Sure, he may be a "normal" idiot who was just running a bot before Cata hit, but it's unlikely he's an RMT.

    I've also seen people literally advertise that they're having a fire sale. I doubt these people are actually RMTs cleaning out a compromised account. Hell, I ran one before I transferred to my current server.

    It's too difficult to tell the difference between RMTs and normal players who are just stupid or trying to make some quick gold. Just buy the stuff and try not to think too hard about it. It's the people that are buying the gold that are "fueling" these botters, not us.
    Last edited by Bleach; December 20th, 2010 at 05:35 PM.

  4. #4
    Undine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeg View Post
    Had to do some googling to figure out what RMT is. I assume it stands for Real Money Trading and not a Registered Massage Therapist I would like to use my gold for?


    Real Money Trader's, the kind that farm ore and herbs non-stop to sell dirt cheap to get gold to sell the gold to people.

  5. #5
    Undine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleach View Post
    I believe many people are truly idiots, so some of them post their products for outrageously low prices because of stupidity. It's difficult to tell the difference between a moron and an RMT, especially now with batch posting built into the game. For example, there was a guy on my server listing full 200 stacks of for 300g a stack. I honestly thought the guy was botting on the Isle of Quel'danas. I even reported him after he kept consistently posting every week (and I bought enough tomes to get all my alts to exalted).

    Fast-forward a month later, and this same character is posting guild ads and chatting in Trade. Sure, he may be a "normal" idiot who was just running a bot before Cata hit, but it's unlikely he's an RMT.

    I've also seen people literally advertise that they're having a fire sale. I doubt these people are actually RMTs cleaning out a compromised account. Hell, I ran one before I transferred to my current server.
    Well, not all people who post low or whom have 'fire sales' are RMT's. But a good portion of those late night ones with strange names could easily be pegged. I myself have found a lot of those sellers who really have no clue what to post items at and give out true bargains. But those ill-witted players are not the sort I was referring to.

  6. #6
    Bleach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undine View Post
    Well, not all people who post low or whom have 'fire sales' are RMT's. But a good portion of those late night ones with strange names could easily be pegged. I myself have found a lot of those sellers who really have no clue what to post items at and give out true bargains. But those ill-witted players are not the sort I was referring to.
    I know you're not referring to the morons. I'm saying that it's hard to tell the difference between stupid players and bots, at least in regard to AH posting. Look, there's no reason to worry about whether someone is an RMT or not. Even if you don't buy those cheap materials off the AH, somebody will. The botter has already made their gold once they make it to the AH with their items.

    The only people who are guilty of supporting the RMTs are the people that buy gold.

  7. #7
    Mugsley's Avatar
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    I'd like to thank those players because I was able to level my former main's Alchemy and JC for less than 10k gold, last night.


    I do agree though. The botting crackdown that occurred in August/September pretty much swamped my whole operation. Saronite shot through the roof and WotLK herbs made flask production useless (flask prices barely moved but herbs shot through the roof).


    The botters will be responsible for normalizing raw mats values well before they normally would have. I view them as a necessary evil, and I'm able to take enough advantage of them to be able to keep profitting where others are losing money.

  8. #8
    Undine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleach View Post
    I know you're not referring to the morons. I'm saying that it's hard to tell the difference between stupid players and bots, at least in regard to AH posting. Look, there's no reason to worry about whether someone is an RMT or not. Even if you don't buy those cheap materials off the AH, somebody will. The botter has already made their gold once they make it to the AH with their items.

    The only people who are guilty of supporting the RMTs are the people that buy gold.

    I don't feel guilty of any sort really. I was just curious to see how many people utilize these sellers and how they effect their sales stream. I would have never thought I'd be relying on them if you had asked me prior to getting in to the AH game. Now it seems like they're the foundation to pricing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Undine View Post
    I don't feel guilty of any sort really. I was just curious to see how many people utilize these sellers and how they effect their sales stream. I would have never thought I'd be relying on them if you had asked me prior to getting in to the AH game. Now it seems like they're the foundation to pricing.
    Does it break TOS to use these guys? if not I may partake...

    do you jsut whisper one and see what they come back with/offer?
    The real measure of your wealth is how much you'd be worth if you lost all your money.

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  10. #10
    Undine's Avatar
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    There's no breach of the TOS when you interact with another player. You yourself can't really prove they're a botter either just by the volume in which they sell. You could probably use your better judgement and pick these sellers out most of the times, but that leaves a grey area still. You can't be expected to know if someone gathered whatever materials they've presented to sell to you, in a TOS breaking manner.

    There's no part of the TOS that states anything in regards to buying in game items from others with in game gold if the seller is under suspicion. It would be a can of worms that Blizzard would not partake in. I have heard a while ago about one AH goblin being pretty devious and reporting another competing goblin for utilizing (buying from) bot farmers, but it only garnered them a warning for 'manipulating the market' which was considered a detrimental action taken against the players and spirit of the game. I personally think that it was either a hoax or just a GM having a bad day and being a dink.

    If you can prove someone is botting by spotting the actual botter in action, then go for it and report them. But if you're buying bulk raw materials off the AH or through COD mail, you have no proof. I post hundreds of auctions at a time for bulk goods, doesn't mean I bot. So it just remains a somewhat shady aspect of trading.