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  1. #1
    Thorzek's Avatar
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    Playing with Suffixes

    An item suffix is the ending description of an item. For example, Jasper Ring can be of the Soldier, of the Beast, of the Seer, etc.

    In Cataclysm, Blizzard has introduced a bunch of new item suffixes. I won't list them all but will work on a compendium later - for now you can reference Jasper Ring page on Wowhead for a full listing of names. *warning* - this page is NOT displaying itemization that is currently in-game on Cataclysm suffixes.

    My first comparison is on the item budget disparity between Cataclysm suffixed and other items. If you need info on item budget check out Wikipedia's page on the topic. Very simply put, items have points "spent" in stats based on a budget. Each point of strength might be one point, stamina might be .5 points, etc. The formula is much discussed but the details aren't important for the purposes of what I'm looking at here. Cutting to the chase:

    Jasper ring of the Sorcerer
    285 ilevel
    79 req
    142 Stam
    95 Int
    95 Haste

    Jasper ring of the Feverflare
    285 ilevel
    79 req
    142 Stam
    95 Int
    63 Haste
    63 Mastery

    These two rings should have identical total budgets no matter how you assign the points. We know Mastery and Haste have the same stat budget since gems have the same allotment - vs. . So why does Feverflare not have 47.5 Haste and 47.5 Mastery?

    This matters in the AH - a lot. If you're shopping for a warlock why would you buy Of The Sorcerer stuff when you can get better total budget out of the Of The Ferverflare or Of The Windstorm? More importantly, how much more would a hardcore pay for this extra budget? However, the sell-side has no such urgency - they cost the exact same to produce (either via crafting or dropped) and therefore carry the same "value" to most sellers. This is where we come in. If you scan the AH you'll see what I mean. Consider one seller's auctions at the time of this writing on the AH:

    Jasper Ring of the Feverflare for 30g
    Jasper Ring of the Sorcerer for 40g

    He's charging LESS for the better ring. I realize there are a million different mitigating factors with this particular item/time so don't get too wrapped up in that - the point is consistent across all items:

    Baradin cord of the Sorcerer
    186 Stam
    124 Int
    124 Haste

    Baradin cord of the Feverflare
    186 Stam
    124 Int
    83 Haste
    83 Mastery

    It costs a JC the same amount of time to craft each ring- it costs the same amount of Luck, Karma, RNG, etc to get a random drop Of the Sorcerer as Of The Feverflame. Many crafters and/or M&S might not even investigate the value of different suffixes. "I smashed 100 Jasper Rings and they all cost the same to make so I'll sell them all for the same" - sounds a lot like "I farmed it so it's free" to me.

    Along the same vein, back to the Wowhead link above, someone looking at that might actually think "oh wow, Feverflare sucks compared to Sorcerer" due to the display and price them lower:

    ...of the Feverflare (3.4% chance)
    +142 Stamina, +95 Intellect, +63 Haste Rating

    ...of the Sorcerer (5.0% chance)
    +142 Stamina, +95 Intellect, +95 Haste Rating
    So when you're selling, or reselling, or DE'ing 1/2 and selling 1/2 don't forget to play with your suffixes!

  2. #2
    You should update your wowwiki link with the new site - http://www.wowpedia.org/Formulas:Item_Values

  3. #3
    I hadnt noticed that, and I don't understand why blizzard would even do that. I'd be willing to wager a gold piece that Blizzard will change this. There's no reasonable explanation for having identical ilvl items that have differing stat budgets.

  4. #4
    Thorzek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by upfromtheashes View Post
    I hadnt noticed that
    Exactly my point - even members here are missing this little nugget - guess how many of the general population is also not aware. You know who IS aware? The hardcore players, the ones willing to spend premium money on miniscule differences just like this.

  5. #5
    I don't think they will change it. It has always been this way. There was a conversation back when iLevel first started showing up, talking about this very issue. At the time, it was comparing items that were much simpler, such as "of the monkey" with 8 agi and 8 stam compared with a "of stamina" item with 12 stam. I'm not sure if it is a situation where each additional point has a greater cost or if there is some sort of averaging or multiplying going on that affects total budget. So, I'll take that 1 gold bet that this is known and expected.

    Take a look at , for example. It comes in a +12 stam version or several +8/+8 versions.

  6. #6
    Well, stamina is not weighted the same as other stats. It only counts half as much as STR or AGI, for example. So a +8 STR/+8 STA item would be "equivalent" to a +12 STR item, at least in Blizzard's eyes.

    However, in this case, stamina is not in the equation. You are comparing secondary stats to other secondary stats. Blizzard has always weighted secondary stats as equivalent to one another for budgeting purposes.

    In the above example, you have one item with 95 points of secondary stats (haste), and another SUPPOSEDLY equivalent item with 126 points of secondary stats (haste + mastery). Both have the same amount of primary stats (95 INT), and the same amount of STA (142).

    This breaks all previous rules of item budgeting and basically flies in the face of even having a stat budget in the first place.

    The real question is: will these new suffixes apply to rare/epic gear? Because greens, despite being "better than regular green gear", will be replaced quickly.

  7. #7
    Undine's Avatar
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    Wouldn't this maybe fall in line with Blizzards change to crafting allowing procs of better items? While the stat weight disparity may seem like a flaw in due process to calculating the weight of an item by it's iLevel, perhaps these items were meant to be a cut above within the same bracket?

    While it could be debatable to whatever extent as to what was anticipated by design or possibly flawed, the bottom line remains, you should always sell to your targets and not sell to the law of proportion of your time or money invested. ( up until the point it loses you money, of course )

    Being a good goblin not only involves knowing economics, but you also need to know your customers, which does largely involve raiders and stat junkies that specifically want certain traits. So if you happen upon one of these bloated stat weightings, mark-up, smile and enjoy your proc'd gold.

  8. #8
    I believe the different weighting for stamina really started to happen with BC-level gear when they first bumped health pools by a bunch. For a better example of a vanilla item, take a look at . Here stamina is being weighted the same as other stats. The result is that we get an item with 13-14 stat points if there are two stats, but only 10-11 if there is just a single stat.

    Now take a look at this BC item - . At this point stamina is weighted slightly differently but we have 38 of a single stat, 50 when there are two stats (63 if one is stamina) and 67 when we have stamina and two other stats. This type of stat increase when there are split stats has been happening since vanilla and even more obviously since BC.

    I don't believe it breaks any rules of stat budgeting, however. It occurs because stat budget is probably not as simple as addition and multiplication. It could be that stats are weighted. In other words, the first 20 strength use 50 points of the budget while the next 20 strength use 80 points of the budget. Therefore, a 40 stamina item costs 130 points, whereas a 20str/20hit item would only use 100 points. The other possibility is that there is some kind of fancy math going on based on how many stats are being used, which results is getting more total points.

  9. #9
    Undine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calianna View Post
    I believe the different weighting for stamina really started to happen with BC-level gear when they first bumped health pools by a bunch. For a better example of a vanilla item, take a look at . Here stamina is being weighted the same as other stats. The result is that we get an item with 13-14 stat points if there are two stats, but only 10-11 if there is just a single stat.

    Now take a look at this BC item - . At this point stamina is weighted slightly differently but we have 38 of a single stat, 50 when there are two stats (63 if one is stamina) and 67 when we have stamina and two other stats. This type of stat increase when there are split stats has been happening since vanilla and even more obviously since BC.

    I don't believe it breaks any rules of stat budgeting, however. It occurs because stat budget is probably not as simple as addition and multiplication. It could be that stats are weighted. In other words, the first 20 strength use 50 points of the budget while the next 20 strength use 80 points of the budget. Therefore, a 40 stamina item costs 130 points, whereas a 20str/20hit item would only use 100 points. The other possibility is that there is some kind of fancy math going on based on how many stats are being used, which results is getting more total points.
    This could be true with primary stats, but correct me if I'm wrong, when you're swapping secondary stats through the NPC you get 1 point for 1 point. It's not weighted by how many points that you already have on the item, it allows you to move them around 1 to 1.

    It would make sense though that the more you stack one stat, the more weighted points it consumes from the pool. But by examples given I don't think that's the case.
    Last edited by Undine; December 17th, 2010 at 04:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Thorzek's Avatar
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    Not that it's the topic of this thread, but regarding the itemization you're both right.

    Stamina does not have the same item budget allotment - it's got 33% less.
    Cata - vs.
    TBC - vs.
    TLK - vs.

    However, the precedent is also set:

    ...of Strength (5.9% chance) (Classic single stats)
    +49 Strength = 49 "budget"

    ...of the Gorilla (4.1% chance) (Classic split stats)
    +32 Intellect, +32 Strength = 64 "budget"

    ...of the Bandit (15.2% chance) (TBC suffix)
    +25 Agility, +38 Stamina, +25 Critical Strike Rating = even adjusting for STA 75 "budget"

    So there's a precedent for them making "newer" suffixes more attractive. I do not expect this to change either.

 

 

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